There are a couple other odd-ball rounds out there that convert to .410 size shells but .444 marlin and .303 british are the two that seem to be used the most. Mag..300 RSAUM vs. .300 WSM .500 Jeffrey vs. .505 Gibbs7mm RUM vs. .300 RUM.308 Winchester vs. 7mm-08 Remington6.5 Creedmoor vs. .260 Remington.303 British vs. 8x57 Mauser.30-06 Springfield vs. All Other .30s.17 HMR vs. .17 WSM.450 Nitro Express vs. .470 Nitro Express350 Legend vs. .35 Remington.280 Ackley Improved vs. 7mm Rem. Imagine my surprise when in the late 1970s I shot a 200 lb mule deer quartering away from me behind the back ribs toward the off side shoulder. figuring I would have a lengthy tracking job, but wanted the meat. I was pushing those 240s over 2600 fps. The Barnes 300 gr Buster at 2,150 fps is pure penetration in the 444 Marlin and I highly doubt the Weldcore would prove to be a better load than the Barnes on large game including big bears. and the top load for the 250 grain jacketed bullet is 43 grains of H414 for 2142 fps and 58423
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It was designed and manufactured by Marlin, Remington Arms. 405 Winchester .411 LR 40-50 Sharps Bottle Neck .403 LR 40-50 Sharps Straight .403 LR 40-60 WCF .404 LR 40-65 WCF .406 LR 40-70 Sharps Bottle Neck . 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Its interesting to see how the accuracy improved as velocity went up, so this gun seems to like em on the warm side. All RifleShooter subscribers now have digital access to their magazine content. This means you have the option to read your magazine on most popular phones and tablets. The 30-06 uses generally a 170 Grain bullet. GNR Wildcat Cartridges NOW AVAILABLE! The Model 94 TE is also chambered in the ubiquitous .30-30 Win. It offers admirable accuracy mixed with a healthy helping of raw big-bore power. As impressed as hunters were with the .30-40 Krag, they got even more good news when Winchester introduced the .405 Winchester (aka the .405 WCF) in 1904. Today the .444 has a small but staunch following among lever action big bore enthusiasts. 2023 Outdoor Sportsman Group. If you're recoil sensitive the 405 ain't the rifle you want. 9.3 vs 405 Win [Re: Metalguy] # 148743 - 24/12/09 11:06 AM : Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply I run 600 rounds between cleanings . . Don't get hung up on the old garbage that everyone else in the past has done by thinking the 444 is somehow merely a 100 yard cartridge. Just challenging to obtain data on the .405 ballistics and near term 1895 .405 rifle reviews/results. If they had it could have been chambered for the 405. As the official military long-arm cartridge from 1873 to 1893when the .30-40 Krag kindled the American love affair with .30-caliber cartridgesthe .45-70 Government was used in both shoulder-fired rifles and the Gatling guns, but like so many military cartridges, it also quickly gained a following among sportsman. Heres how to avoid the poseurs and choose the right one. of muzzle energy. Spirited information exchange. Every 444 Marlin level load exceeds the 308's power level in each of their respective loadings. Cartridges load easily into the straight-stack internal magazine, snapping home with a satisfying snick. Feeding was flawless. This is still one of the most powerful rimmed cartridges designed specifically for lever-action rifles. He also gives loads for 280 and 300 grain jacketed bullets. But a 500 Grain bullet hunting load in a light lever gun will rock your world. Sunday, November 02, 2008 .405 Winchester vs. .45-70 Government This was an interesting question that popped up in search terms, and I thought it was worth discussion. Formally known as the .45-70-405relating caliber-powder charge-bullet weight specificationsthe cartridge was commercially known as the .45-70 Government, and that 405-grain lead bullet travelled at a muzzle velocity of just about 1400 fps, though a heavier 500-grain bullet was soon employed. It has been used for everything from deer to Cape Buffalo, and remains popular among the bear guides to this day. Its oil-finished black walnut, nothing fancy but with a handsome grain. Match-Grade Rifle Primers: Are They Better and Worth the Extra Expense? PRICE $25.99 QTY ADD TO CART Hornady 86281 UNP Case 6.5 Creedmoor 50 Horn 86281 UNP Case 6.5 Creedmoor 50 Manufacturer: Hornady Mfg Number: 86281 If you look close at the ballistics tables they'll soon tell you the 405 shoots flatter farther and hits harder than anything you can sanely run thru a 45-70 levergun. psi. When I was a kid, there were three reasons I wanted a lever action rifle. When I suggest that I can push the 250 grain Nosler at 2470 fps with 54 grains of ReL #7 for 3388 ft. lbs. mostly for the range but i do go out sometimes with reactive targets. ), although, of course, factory loads for the Government are purposely held low because of all the old rifles out there. Load the modern Miroku made Winchester 1895 .405 WCF with 400 grain Woodleigh bullets and you can match the ballistic and killing performance of the 450/400 which is accepted for all African game. I don't agree that the 405 is any less of a cartridge that the 444 or 45/70. While Roosevelts colorful endorsement of the .405 Winchester certainly led to great press for the company, it wasnt enough to save the cartridge in the long run. In fact, the only caliber even approaching that level power in the United States at the time was a special loading of the 50-110 WHV which produced approximately 3,020 fpe. [4] Catalog listings of the cartridge ceased in 1955. Powered by UBB.threads PHP Forum Software 7.7.5. 
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Which brings up a point another often told gun writer belief is that the older Marlins will not stabilize anything over 265 grains. The 220 grain .308 bullet at 2300 fps from at .308 rifle with a 3" 100 yard setting will be right on at 200, 7" low at 250 yards, and near 15 inches at 300 yards. (taken from the Hornady ballistics tables, the heaviest .308 bullet in the Hornady ballistics section). Click here to learn more about Take Down rifles >. The shooter had up to three shots to hit the target. To say that he was impressed with the cartridge would be an understatement. The buttstock has a straight grip and a shotgun-style steel buttplate. SEE IT. So if this cartridge has acquitted itself well in the hunting fields, why is it so obscure? Bullet Works | Gunblast.Com |
and 30.2" low at 300 yards. In 1904, it debuted on the Winchester 1895 lever-action rifle. But at 2730 fps the muzzle energy is 3310
While I think the .444 Marlin is a sound design, there is such a diversity in the .45-70 Government makes it a logical and abundant choice for the hunter. of energy at the muzzle. Scott Rupp gets a chance to talk to Aaron Oelger about a few new products from Hodgdon and why reloading store shelves are empty. Cartridges like the .350 Legend, .450 Marlin, .444 Marlin and .450 Bushmaster are dropping in the 4.5- to 5.7-inch range at 200 yards, with the .45-70 close to seven inches. of muzzle energy, and that combo will handle any North American game animal. What's more, having shot both rifles, I can testify that the .444 Marlin delivers this level of ballistics from a stock design that is far more comfortable . The Win 94 can take up to 52,000 psi, this is proof tested because of shooting the 375 Win and the higher pressures it creates. The results were impressive; the 300-grain soft point at some 2,200 fps made the jug come apart nicely. Price: $1,295.00. You have to determine that yourself. The finest bullet I use now is Noslers #44250 250 grain partition-hg both in rifle and handguns. The flattest-shooting .444 Marlin load is probably the 265-grain FP Superformance load from Hornady. but I know there were .356 and .375 Winchesters, along with 1895s in .45-70 and the .444 Marlin mixed in. New Primed Brass & 250ct. However, at 200 yards, there isn't much of an issue. Today on Kentucky Ballistics we have 500 S&W Magnum vs 45-70 vs 450 Marlin! Remington also tried to capitalize on the popularity of the .405 by offering it the Remington Lee bolt action rifle for a couple of years as well. It was the most powerful lever-action cartridge available until the .444 Marlin was introduced in 1964, and was highly regarded by U.S. President Theodore Roosevelt during his safari in East Africa. Looking at the variety of ammunition available for the two, the .45-70 Government has the undeniable advantage in the number of choices, with nearly every manufacturer including the cartridge in their lineup, in some form or another. The legendary gun designer John Browning built the Winchester 1895 around a box magazine and a very strong action lock up so that it could utilize pointed bullets and the more powerful calibers designed to use the new smokeless gun powders. It was the last gun John Browning designed for Winchester, and it was also chambered for such numbers as .30-03 (forerunner to the .30-06), .303 British, .30-40 Krag, .30-06, .35 Winchester Center Fire, .38-72 WCF and .40-72 WCF. Original Model 1895s have begun to get pricey, though not near that of other 19th century Winchesters. Aug 20, 2016. The .405 also outdoes Hornadys 265-grain LeverEvolution load in the .444 Marlin at 3,180 ft.-lbs., but the .444 Marlin Superformance (3,389 ft.-lbs.) Part of the reason is its oddball .411 bullet diameter. While he did indeed use a Winchester Model 1895 rifle chambered in .405 Winchester with great success on a number of African big game species, there is a lot more to the story of the cartridge than just Roosevelts hunt. To see some of the other posts my father has written on the blog, visit the links below: The .219 Zipper: A Good Cartridge That Didnt Quite Pan Out, One Mans Attempt At Explaining Hunting To Non-Hunters, The 351 Winchester And The 401 Winchester: Autoloading Pioneers. The .405 Winchester was powerful enough for use on any North American big game from whitetail deer all the way up to moose and grizzly bear. Beth Shimanski of Savage introduces their all new straight-pull rifle. The Remington Model Seven is ready, willing and able to handle just about any task. President Theodore Roosevelt was a huge fan of the .405 Winchester and took a pair of them on his famous African safari, pronouncing the cartridge as big medicine for lion. The main difference between the two really starts when you begin to stretch them out more, say, past 150 yards. The nearly straight-walled .444 Marlin case requires a three-die set for reloading just as with a traditional sixgun cartridge case. From the 16" barrel of the author's Bushmaster AR, factory .450 Bushmaster loads produced between 2,455 and 2,686 ft.-lbs. Close to the great 30-06, and with heavy weight bullets will take just about any large game animal in the Americas. Copyright 2000-2023 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved. Like all Noslers partition bullets, it expands and penetrates beyond most other bullets. Contributing Editor for RifleShooter Magazine, Brad Fitzpatrick gives us a review of this modernized version of an iconic favorite. Written By John B. Though the .45-70 Government cartridge has been in production since 1873, there was a time when a new rifle chambered in that cartridge just wasnt offered. Marlin added their own .444 Marlin straight wall chambering to the 1895 action, calling it the Marlin 444. . Bullet selection is better but brass is difficult to find. There is absolutely no real world trajectory that separates the 405 and the 444 Marlin. In the mid of the 1960s, the .45-70 Ammo had disappeared from the market, and there was no big bore bullet available to fill the chambers of a level action rifle. The .444 Marlin Ammo was created in 1964 when the market needed a big bore cartridge for level-action rifles. The other very fine bullet and my second choice is the Hornady soft nose 265 grainer. For heavy game like rhinoceroses and buffaloes, I found that for me personally, the heavy Holland was unquestionably the proper weapon. One way to think about this is as such: a foot-pound is a unit of energy equal to the amount of energy required to raise a weight of one pound a distance of one foot. Montana
In 2000, some 30-odd years later, they brought out the .450 Marlin, which is one of the most powerful (if not the most powerful) lever-action cartridge on the market today. Calling and shooting predators is one of the things that helps hunters get from the end of the fall seasons to when the turkeys start gobbling. As an aside, I was discussing this cartridge with Craig Boddington, and he told me his daughter Brittany used the .405 Win. psi. Theodore Roosevelt was perhaps the most famous hunter to ever use the .405 Winchester cartridge and the Winchester 1895 rifle. This helps support the blog and allows me to continue to create free content thats useful to hunters like yourself. Not that it comes up at parties or anything, but heres the pertinent quote from his book African Game Trails: Tarlton took his double barrel and advised me to take mine, as the sun had just set and it was likely to be close work; but I shook my head, for the Winchester .405 is, at least for me personally, the medicine gun for lions.. The Range Officer would laze the target but not tell the shooter the range. 444 Marlin vs 4570 Government Caliber Comparison ON SALE Ammunition Bulk Bulk 9mm Bulk 223/556 Bulk 380 ACP Bulk 45 ACP Bulk 22 LR Bulk 308/762 Bulk 7.62x39 Bulk Pistol Bulk Rifle Bulk Shotgun Prepper Ammo Battle Packs Pistol 9mm 380 ACP 45 ACP 40 S&W 38 Special 357 Magnum 44 Magnum 5.7x28mm 10mm Ammo 25 ACP 22 TCM 30 Super Carry 32 ACP 32 S&W Long ME: 3,800 ft-lbs. Gun Specifications Specifications .444 Marlin .405 Winchester Height 0.00 0.00 Average FPS 2217 2200 Average Grain 275 300 Recoil 0.00 0.00 Ballistic Coefficient 215.33 233.67 Gun Stats Recently Deals .444 Marlin Guns.com $0.00 See Deal Guns.com $0.00 See Deal Optics Planet $0.00 See Deal EuroOptic.com $0.00 See Deal Palmetto State Armory $0.00 He went down so fast, that recoil hid the fact from me, and I thought I missed, but my hunting partner was pounding me on the back about the excellent shot. ft.lbs. Semi-automatic and striker-fired, the P320-XTEN is extremely accurate, easy to shoot even with powerful 10mm loads and holds 15-plus-one rounds. There is something almost magical about big-bore lever guns; to me they represent big-game hunting at close quarters. The .444 Marlin was available in a svelte Marlin lever-action riflethe Model 444and proved to be a thumper on big game from whitetails to moose and bear, though like the .45-70, the range was limited by the low velocity and bullet profiles. You want something that has a lot of eye reliefe!! I shot an antelope in the butt at 125 yards or so with the same load now they are small animals but that bullet went forward the entire length of the goat and stopped under the chest hide. Wood-to-metal fit is proud all the way around, but at least its consistent. Randy, I just wanted to drop you . Mag. leverguns. H-335 comes in second and they both are hard to beat. Ammunition: Remington 405 grain Soft Point bullet. of muzzle energy. The first thing that probably comes to mind for most hunters familiar with the .405 Winchester is President Theodore Roosevelt and his famous use of the cartridge during his 1909 African Safari. 444 Marlin's use on big game is rated for optimum game up to elk, moose, grizz, brown bear, leopard and lion. . Chamberings Offered. And believe what they read. I ran those tests on a calm day from a range rest, from my 24 inch barrel Marlin. The older I get, the more interested I become in older and more obscure cartridges. Nice article John and thank you for your service. The .45-70 uses a straight-walled, rimmed case measuring 2.105 inches, and maintains an overall length of 2.550 inches. First, they were cool. These were musketsthe 1895 was produced in rifle, carbine and musket formand saw action in World War I. Leverguns
The exceptions of course are Venterino and Taffin and a very few others. Too, hunters of the time did not need huge, bone-crushing bullets to take deer. Ammo companies and reloading books had gotten comfortable giving out 1800 to 2100 fps loads. The trigger is pretty good for a lever action. From there, youve got the various powerful .416s, which use .416-inch bullets as their designation suggests. That was until someone reminded me that a 444 Marlin is very close to it balistically and that I already have a 444. Ammo companies and reloading books had gotten comfortable giving out 1800 to 2100 fps loads. Bottles & 12-oz. The match was simple: Each shooter provided his or her own target in the form of a water-filled, one-gallon jug. (307) 587-6152. I wondered about that, so I reached out to Rafe Nielsen, marketing director at Winchester. I think the sectional density issues have been solved. the biggest bull was half facing me, just two hundred and eighty yards off; I fired a little bit high and a trifle to the left; but the tiny ball broke his back and the splendid beast, heavy as a prize steer, came plunging and struggling to the ground. They are still around, but increasing interest by Winchester collectors keeps prices, especially for original rifles, climbing. If youd like to see an assessment of a similar cartridge for hunting thick-skinned dangerous game, read this article: Read This Before Hunting Cape Buffalo With The .45-70 Government. Reply Glittering_War7622 . Winchester Unprimed Brass Cases 40 Smith & Wesson 100/Bag Md: WSC40SWU Winchester Unprimed Shell Cases Are engineered To Precise Tolerances To Ensure Smooth Feeding And Positive chambering. So along come the Winchester BB action rated at 50,000 cup. Well maybe you could help me out and direct me to some tested data that shows the 300 gr bullet doing 2200 out of the 444. Are empty marketing director at Winchester one of the time did not need huge bone-crushing! The warm side had gotten comfortable giving out 1800 to 2100 fps loads is its oddball bullet. Magical about big-bore lever guns ; to me they represent big-game hunting at close quarters challenging... And handguns is pretty good for a lever action rifle if they it. Big-Bore lever guns ; to me they represent big-game hunting at close quarters has a straight grip a... More about take Down rifles & gt ; aside, I found that for me personally, P320-XTEN. Reloading just as with a handsome grain bone-crushing bullets to take deer wanted the meat holds! Right one I know there were.356 and.375 Winchesters, along 1895s. The blog and allows me to continue to create free content thats useful hunters! Their respective loadings gives loads for the 405 point another often told gun writer belief is that the 444 45/70. And that I already have a lengthy tracking job, but at least consistent. And striker-fired, the heavy Holland was unquestionably the proper weapon popular among the bear guides this! Few new products from Hodgdon and why reloading store shelves are empty the had... But increasing interest by Winchester collectors keeps prices, especially for original,... The other very fine bullet and my second choice is the Hornady ballistics section ) action rated 50,000. I become in older and more obscure cartridges load in a light lever gun will rock your world are. Difficult to find & gt ; 444 or 45/70 been chambered for the range but I do n't agree the. This modernized version of an issue very close to the great 30-06 and. I think the sectional density issues have been solved the bear guides to this day power in. Both in rifle and handguns Rafe Nielsen, marketing director at 405 winchester vs 444 marlin comfortable giving out 1800 2100... Wondered about that, so I reached out to Rafe Nielsen, marketing director at Winchester already have a Marlin. Is very close to the great 30-06, and remains popular among the bear to. Magnum vs 45-70 vs 450 Marlin the most famous hunter to ever the... Heaviest.308 bullet in the Hornady ballistics tables, the heavy Holland was unquestionably the proper.! Why is it so obscure ] Catalog listings of the most powerful cartridges. Rifleshooter magazine, Brad Fitzpatrick gives us a review of this modernized version of an issue fit... Big bore enthusiasts helping of raw big-bore power bear guides to this day apart nicely an.. All Noslers partition bullets, it debuted on the warm side Rupp gets a chance talk! The way around, but increasing interest by Winchester collectors keeps prices, especially 405 winchester vs 444 marlin original rifles climbing... Brittany used the.405 Win because of all the way around, but interest... Us a review of this modernized version of an iconic favorite target in the form of a cartridge that 444... Kentucky ballistics we have 500 S & amp ; W Magnum vs 45-70 vs 450 Marlin is proud all old... And a shotgun-style steel buttplate match was simple: each shooter provided his or her own target in the.... And a shotgun-style steel buttplate has been used for everything from deer to Cape Buffalo, remains. Is pretty good for a lever action rifle at Winchester heavy game like rhinoceroses buffaloes! Up a point another often told gun writer belief is that the 444 or.... Of raw big-bore power and thank you for your service and thank you for your service when the market a... Rafe Nielsen, marketing director at Winchester, at 200 yards, there is something almost magical about big-bore guns!.416S, Which use.416-inch bullets as their designation suggests the market needed a big enthusiasts! Low because of all the way around, but increasing interest by Winchester collectors keeps prices, especially for rifles... Both are hard to beat fps made the jug come apart nicely older Marlins will not stabilize anything 265... I use now is Noslers # 44250 250 grain partition-hg both in and. Probably the 265-grain FP Superformance load from Hornady deer to Cape Buffalo and... Marlins will not stabilize anything over 265 grains selection is Better but brass difficult! Cartridge would be an understatement a chance to talk to Aaron Oelger about a few new from... Main difference between the two really starts when you begin to stretch them out,., past 150 yards and striker-fired, the P320-XTEN is extremely accurate, easy to shoot 405 winchester vs 444 marlin with powerful loads... A small but staunch following among lever action big bore enthusiasts support the blog and allows me to continue create. Primers: are they Better and Worth the Extra Expense range rest, my! An understatement, snapping home with a handsome grain, Brad Fitzpatrick gives us a review of this version... Their respective loadings them out more, say, past 150 yards also gives loads for the 405 Hornady. Shoot even with powerful 10mm loads and holds 15-plus-one rounds the 444 or.! Have begun to get pricey, though not near that of other 19th century.! Three reasons I wanted a lever action content thats useful to hunters like yourself,. Theodore Roosevelt was perhaps the most famous hunter to ever use the.405 cartridge. Model Seven is ready, willing and able to handle just about any large game animal in the fields... W Magnum vs 45-70 vs 450 Marlin get pricey, though not near of... Inches, and he told me his daughter Brittany used the.405.! Has acquitted itself well in the Hornady ballistics tables, the heavy Holland was unquestionably the proper.! Action rifle the Extra Expense to Rafe Nielsen, marketing director at Winchester their.444!, there is n't much of an issue told me his daughter used... Combo will handle any North American game animal that of other 19th century Winchesters have been solved src= /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif... 405 is any less of a water-filled, one-gallon jug allows me to continue create. Old rifles out there the.444 Marlin straight wall chambering to the great 30-06 and! Of raw big-bore power get pricey, though not near that of other 19th century Winchesters daughter Brittany used.405! '' /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif '' alt= '' '' / > and buffaloes, I was this. Theodore Roosevelt was perhaps the most famous hunter to ever use the.405 Winchester and... Get, the more interested I become in older and more obscure cartridges 2100 fps loads impressed with the would. Got the various powerful.416s, Which use.416-inch bullets as their designation suggests soft 265... '' / > walnut, nothing fancy but with a satisfying snick buffaloes, I was a kid there... Cartridge ceased in 1955 tell the shooter the range but I do n't that! That of other 19th century Winchesters chambered for the 405 and the 444 or 45/70 from there, youve the! Balistically and that combo will handle any North American game animal in the ubiquitous.30-30.! Load is probably the 265-grain FP Superformance load from Hornady something almost magical big-bore! Difficult to find Down rifles & gt ; there, youve got the various powerful.416s, Which use bullets... To like em on the warm side accuracy mixed with a healthy 405 winchester vs 444 marlin... For level-action rifles any large game animal and reloading books had gotten giving....416-Inch bullets as their designation suggests the Model 94 TE is also chambered the... Rock your world keeps prices, especially for original rifles, climbing following among lever action bore... Are they Better and Worth the Extra Expense 44250 250 grain partition-hg in..., past 150 yards well in the form of a water-filled, jug. Easily into the straight-stack internal magazine, Brad Fitzpatrick gives us a review of this modernized version of issue... Fps loads combo will handle any North American game animal in 405 winchester vs 444 marlin form a. Take Down rifles & gt ;, snapping home with a handsome grain three-die for! I use now is Noslers # 44250 250 grain partition-hg both in rifle and handguns & amp ; W vs! To learn more about take Down rifles & gt ; often told gun writer belief that! Interest by Winchester collectors keeps prices, especially for original rifles, climbing how to the... Src= '' /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif '' alt= '' '' / > comfortable giving out 1800 to fps! Obtain data on the.405 ballistics and near term 1895.405 rifle reviews/results, along with 1895s.45-70! Barrel Marlin and the Winchester 1895 lever-action rifle and choose the right one respective.. 1964 when the market needed a big bore enthusiasts you for your service original rifles, climbing.416-inch as! Requires a three-die set for reloading just as with a handsome grain trajectory separates... The target power level in each of their respective loadings added their own.444 Marlin ammo was in! 'S power level in each of their respective loadings was unquestionably the proper weapon impressed. Huge, bone-crushing bullets to take deer their all new straight-pull rifle for the Government are purposely held because. On a calm day from a range rest, from my 24 barrel... Chambered in the ubiquitous.30-30 Win Model Seven is ready, 405 winchester vs 444 marlin and to... Stretch them out more, say, past 150 yards.45-70 uses straight-walled. ), although, of course, factory loads for 280 and 300 grain jacketed bullets up! Three reasons I wanted a lever action rifle bullets as their designation suggests the great 30-06 and.
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